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RYK VAN NIEKERK: Welcome to this week’s version of the Be a Higher Investor podcast. My identify is Ryk van Niekerk and on this podcast collection I converse to main skilled traders and enterprise leaders about their funding journeys. We additionally take a peek into their private funding portfolios and attempt to perceive how they analyse funding alternatives, what firms and property they spend money on, and whether or not they have extra hits than misses. The thought is to establish a number of golden nuggets of knowledge to assist novice retail traders develop into higher traders.
My visitor immediately is Grant Nader. He’s a portfolio supervisor at Benguela International and has additionally utilized his commerce at many different establishments, together with Effectus Capital Administration, Kaizen Asset Administration and Renaissance Capital. I see Investec additionally on the checklist.
Grant, thanks a lot on your time immediately. Initially, simply inform us the place you come from, and which careers you dreamt about when nonetheless younger?
GRANT NADER: Curiously, I used to be at all times drawn to the markets. I believe it comes from my dad, who was a kind of with the newspaper, had these couple of hundred shares within the newspaper, opened it day-after-day. And he would hearken to the market discuss on the radio. I bought drawn into it and he sort of bought me and my brother to purchase a few shares.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: When was this?
GRANT NADER: I’m Joburg born and bred. Most likely within the late eighties is once I type of first encountered equities and shares – [asking] what’s all these things? I had a number of shares I believe gifted to me by my dad.
And naturally it was an excellent time available in the market for a few years, and instantly issues have been going up. So that you get excited and also you begin opening the newspaper day-after-day. So I used to take pleasure in paging by the enterprise part.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: So that you have been nonetheless in school?
GRANT NADER: I used to be nonetheless in school. I used to be in Customary 7 or 8; immediately’s Grade 9 and 10, I believe. In order that was once I was . I’ve cherished it since then. I’ve at all times cherished the markets.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: While you determined to develop into a CA, behind your thoughts was, ‘I need to channel my qualification into managing folks’s cash’.
GRANT NADER: Mockingly there wasn’t, as a result of in these days we didn’t have the data availability we’ve got now. I cherished the market, however it by no means occurred to me it was a career. It by no means occurred to me that it was a chance. So I ended up finding out economics and legislation, to start out with, and I used to be finding out funding legislation – properly, commerce and mercantile legislation – as a result of I assumed that’s how I could possibly be in [something] like finance and investments, broadly.
Then I realised, as I used to be working my means by an LLB, that that was most likely probably not what I needed to do. After doing a number of sensible type of clinic classes [I knew] that it was positively not what I needed to do. I got here throughout this conversion course that UCT presents, which lets you convert to a chartered accountant course. It’s a two-year course; you do a BCom and postgrad in like two years.
So then I moved, I went to UCT, I completed my LLB, and did that for 2 years. Then I did articles at KPMG, the place I labored within the monetary providers division, auditing treasuries and funding banks. I began to see that you would be able to get nearer and nearer to those issues.
In order that began to open these doorways that I had by no means thought have been open to me. I assume I had simply by no means explored it. It’s an issue with youth, you realize.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: And that’s at all times an excellent story. When younger CAs have to go and do articles, they do auditing work, after which they get dispatched to those great firms – some very well-known firms, some not so well-known. That’s the primary time you truly see what these firms do and the way they function. It’s so attention-grabbing that in lots of circumstances lots of these younger auditors are being poached by these firms to return and work of their accounts division to carry out different obligations. Was that the route you adopted?
GRANT NADER: That’s exactly what occurred to me. I used to be auditing Nedcor Treasury and Nedcor Funding Financial institution, the spinoff desk; I cherished the derivatives as a result of that was all concerning the shares and the choices on the shares, quidi……3:42 derivatives. I completed articles and I simply picked up the cellphone and phoned one of many guys there, a man by the identify of David Bavin, a Australian, and I stated, ‘Look, have any pursuits?…And I began instructed ……3.55 fairness spinoff merchandise. That was the place my first hole got here.
From there I moved on to the fairness spinoff buying and selling desk. I’ve at all times had this enjoyment of managing cash for others, however it began off in fairness derivatives, not in precise equities. That was simply how I defaulted. However I used to be loving it, I used to be the place I needed to be, and it was an thrilling journey.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Sure, these deaths/desks……4:14 are fairly notorious in some ways, however you be taught loads. You stated you had shares while you have been nonetheless in school paging by the newspaper and making calls on that. However when did you truly begin to make investments? Make investments is a broad time period, as a result of I don’t know if fairness derivatives you’ll be able to name investing. That’s most likely extra buying and selling. However when did you truly begin to say, pay attention, I need to construct a long-term portfolio, I need to construct sustainable wealth. When did that course of begin?
GRANT NADER: I began that in articles. As I stated, I used to be following the market carefully and was investing there. After which once I moved on to the buying and selling desk, it type of took a bit of little bit of a backseat as a result of issues have been a bit extra short-termism. That was extra thrilling however truly I at all times felt just like the short-termism of it was like a little bit of frustration. We at all times needed to know the businesses we have been buying and selling round, however you can by no means take that long-term view as simply. And so even then I used to be itching for the power to carry and make investments long term.
So we did have private account portfolios. I used to be investing for myself however it wasn’t as a lot of a spotlight as a result of I used to be doing it for a dwelling as properly. I used to be doing it on the aspect; it was a secondary focus however it was increase slowly.
After which through the years I began to extend that as I began to extend my type of timelines of how I noticed the world as I began to say I wanted to maneuver to the purchase aspect – which is what it’s known as. The promote aspect is the banks and the stockbrokers and so they all promote their analysis to the purchase aspect, or the blokes who’re truly the traders who handle the cash for the pension funds and that. And searching for that purchase aspect was calling me.
And so I moved there submit 2010, in round 2013. That was when issues began to maneuver in that path.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Simply clarify precisely what’s the distinction between buying and selling and investing?
GRANT NADER: That’s an awesome query and I believe the traces are fairly often blurred for a lot of traders – and notably retail traders, possibly even some skilled traders.
Buying and selling ought to be about shorter-term, extra predefined all the pieces. Outline your entry level, outline your exit level, outline what you’re attempting to get out of this commerce and while you’re going to stroll away, know when it’s going to go fallacious, know the way a lot you’re prepared to danger.
Then buying and selling is loads shallower. So that you don’t have to know the deep fundamentals of the corporate, you don’t want to fret about the place the corporate’s going to be in 5 or 10 years’ time and their market share, and many others. You might be usually worrying loads shorter time period; it could possibly be so long as a month or three months and even six months, however it’s by no means out into the years.
With investing you truly need to look and ask your self, that is the place I’ve moved and [need to] perceive basically whether or not it’s a nice firm. Do I need to maintain this for an extended time frame? Can I sleep at evening with this in my portfolio, with out worrying about what’s going to occur to the enterprise?
In order an investor you assume extra deeply concerning the precise fundamentals of the enterprise that you just’re shopping for. You’re an proprietor in a enterprise – and I believe we don’t realise that sufficient. It’s not a bit of paper or a lightweight on a display. You’re truly a enterprise proprietor in these firms and that’s the totally different mindset that it’s best to have as an investor.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Absolutely. And I believe you’ve got rights as a shareholder too. I purchased shares for my daughter in Woolies a few years in the past. She walked in there – she was about 9 years outdated – and stated, pay attention, ‘I’m a component proprietor of this enterprise’ to the cashier. [Laughter]
So when did you progress to the long-only aspect, the pure long-term funding aspect of the funding world, the place you presently are at Benguela and [have been at] among the earlier asset managers you’ve labored at?
GRANT NADER: The long-only shift occurred in 2014, so it’s been 10 years, mainly. Alongside the way in which I’ve been concerned in hedge funds on the identical time, however at all times on the long-only aspect from that time as properly. That’s the place you get to assume barely long term. You get to essentially make extra knowledgeable choices, I might argue. It’s been a extremely fulfilling journey. It’s been an awesome journey by way of studying, and I believe the learnings from buying and selling are literally very helpful, the truth is, as a result of I perceive the world from either side, and might see the professionals and cons of either side of the business.
I’m very glad the place I’m, however I don’t assume the teachings realized usually are not helpful to me. I believe they’re very helpful.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Sure, classes realized. I believe in some ways this market represents uncharted territory. I don’t know if ever [before] I’ve heard market commentators use the phrases ‘it is going to depend upon rates of interest, and US rates of interest’. It’s been the terminology for the previous two years. Earlier than that the terminology was ‘quantitative easing’. I can’t bear in mind what it was earlier than that. Perhaps, ‘Will the banks survive within the 2008, 2009 disaster?’
However has the way in which you worth funding alternatives modified – as a result of a lot extra noise being available in the market?
GRANT NADER: It shouldn’t change that, however I believe it modifications the shorter-term image. So for those who’re worrying about the place markets are stepping into a number of months’ time, it issues, all that noise. if you wish to be a correct investor, you’ve bought to attempt to sift by the noise. To be sincere, if rates of interest go up one other twenty-five bips or fifty bips, or down 25 or 50 bips, it shouldn’t make any distinction to the basics of the corporate you’re investing in. Nevertheless, it could result in value volatility within the share, and we confuse value volatility with the underlying firm and the enterprise that you just’re shopping for into – that essential level that you just at all times want to recollect as an investor.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: You confuse volatility with uncertainty.
GRANT NADER: Hundred %.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Let’s return to your early days as an investor. Identify a number of of the primary years you ever purchased, possibly a share you truly purchased with your personal cash.
GRANT NADER: We had a little bit of a gold rush in South Africa again in, I believe, the late eighties or early nineties or round there. There have been all these gold exploration firms itemizing on the JSE, and the second there can be a reputation thrown out, everybody would purchase it. So I purchased an organization known as Goal Mining Exploration. I believe it was related to Anglovaal Gold or one thing on the time. We did rather well. It went up properly. I used to be patting myself on the again, I assumed I used to be a rockstar, and it was a few these.
However then in fact the rug was pulled [out from under us], and a whole lot of these firms simply fell off the bed. I can’t bear in mind how lengthy that took to play out. However you begin to get a way that it’s straightforward to earn a living when all the pieces’s going up. It’s very totally different when it’s a must to separate one firm from the subsequent. In order that was fairly an excellent lesson for me.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: So that you smiled all the way in which up, and also you frowned all the way in which down. You didn’t promote on the high?
GRANT NADER: No, I didn’t promote on the high. You get that feeling of, properly, it’ll come again.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Let’s hope.
GRANT NADER: Sure, hope isn’t an funding technique.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: It’s too typically an funding technique. After which afterward, did your number of firms change or your fascinated by potential alternatives?
GRANT NADER: Sure, positively. I began to be taught – and this truly stayed with me my complete profession, whether or not I used to be buying and selling or investing – you need to personal nice companies. Really brief time period it doesn’t matter as a lot, however long run you could personal companies which are basically good companies, and companies that may develop, as a result of a enterprise that’s cash-generative and has a excessive dividend yield, however whose dividend or that money doesn’t ever develop, simply turns into a worth entice.
So there’s an enormous distinction between a worth and a worth entice, and there’s additionally a whole lot of consolation and security and skill to sleep at evening when proudly owning an excellent enterprise like a basically sound enterprise. That was related once I was in fairness derivatives and it’s equally related immediately – if no more related.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: What is a good enterprise?
GRANT NADER: In fact at Benguela we’ve got a high quality definition that may be very rigorous, and [has] all these particulars. However for the typical individual it’s a enterprise that’s producing sufficient money that debt isn’t going to develop into an issue if charges go up or if there’s a slowdown within the financial system. It’s a enterprise that has the power to develop if there are alternatives to deploy the money.
The perfect instance is our retail panorama. You’ve bought Shoprite, Decide n Pay, Spar. There’s no progress in South Africa. Everyone knows that the retail pie isn’t rising, most markets usually are not rising. The great companies are capable of finding methods to develop and innovate. Innovation is one thing I’ve actually realized during the last 10 years. Although there’s not a whole lot of progress alternative on the face of it, they’ll eat rivals’ market share, they’ll discover new enterprise alternatives or they’ll develop by enhancing their very own inside operations. So [they have] some potential to drive earnings as a result of over the long run constant earnings progress is what makes an excellent firm. So constant money stream and earnings progress.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: However within the retail sector, it’s attention-grabbing. You could have an organization like Shoprite which is completely taking pictures the lights out. I believe they’re opening a retailer a day, nearly. After which you’ve got Decide n Pay, which is within the information presently. It must go to shareholders to get more cash simply to take care of operations. It’s not a contented place.
So even in a sector with excessive obstacles of entry, there are good and unhealthy and distinctive firms. You simply have to establish them earlier than that’s so evident.
GRANT NADER: Properly it’s been evident for a very long time. Individuals simply have been prepared to miss it. You possibly can have seen that Shoprite for the previous few years has been gaining market share. They’ve been out-innovating the friends. Take a look at the web supply, take a look at the capturing of market share and quantity progress – which not one of the others had. It’s there. You simply must search for it. Search for the indicators of innovation, search for the indicators of working at a superior degree. Decide n Pay has been declining on the core for a very long time, however it’s been masked by different info, by [its] Boxer and Clothes. They didn’t make that info accessible till not too long ago. After which, as soon as it turned seen, folks realised that the tide had gone out and so they have been left a bit of bare.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Ten years in the past the variations weren’t that apparent. Decide n Pay was truly performing rather well – possibly longer than 10 years in the past – after Sean Summers. I believe he left within the mid-2000s [when] Decide n Pay was in an honest form.
What number of retail specialists have been capable of establish these two divergent progress trajectories these two firms would take, and act on it? That most likely is the ability you could have on this enterprise.
GRANT NADER: Sure, and I believe what’s occurred is for those who look brief time period, Decide n Pay has outperformed this yr or underperformed that yr, and it hasn’t been apparent. However the long-term pattern was there. Richard Brasher got here in within the early 2010s to attempt to flip it round. After 10 years they nonetheless haven’t actually moved the margin in Decide n Pay. It’s nearly half Shoprite’s margin. They’ve reduce prices, they’ve carried out all the pieces they’ll, and the margins are nonetheless within the twos. That could be a razor-thin margin enterprise, and it’s being uncovered now. So for me it’s at all times been seen however the share value motion within the interim – as folks count on issues are going to enhance or assume issues are going to vary – hasn’t been as apparent always. However the long-term pattern is unbroken, and that’s distinction between an excellent firm and an organization that’s maybe common and attempting to get higher.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: One other means to take a look at it, is there’s a restoration alternative as a result of generally firms actually carry out properly and could be circled. And, as you’ve stated, there have been a number of makes an attempt by Decide n Pay to try this. You simply have to most likely choose the suitable one, and that’s not straightforward.
GRANT NADER: A robust value-creation mechanism is enhancing high quality for firms which are getting it proper. However at all times watch out as an investor. What are you allocating to that chance? Is it type of a danger guess, or is it a positive guess? You don’t at all times must bottom-pick to seek out that turnaround.
I believe we too typically purchase the shares which are struggling – as a result of they give the impression of being low cost – within the hope that they flip round. It’s best to have a core portfolio constructed round high quality firms and then you definately play across the edges on a few of these turnaround methods, and many others. It shouldn’t be the muse of your portfolio, I believe. That’s a battle.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: I’m positive you’ve got your personal private funding portfolio along with your official retirement financial savings. I believe that’s primary if you wish to save. Begin with saving or contributing towards a pension or retirement annuity, however you probably have cash left over, put it right into a discretionary portfolio. After which, I believe, when you’ve got pores and skin within the sport you begin to be taught.
Simply take us by your private portfolio and the way you’ve approached it and possibly tweaked it because the years handed by.
GRANT NADER: Completely. So the essential factor is the diversification mantra is an actual and legitimate assertion. Don’t ever have an excessive amount of of your portfolio in anyone firm. Typically you’ll put loads into one otherwise you’ll have one which does properly, and it simply grows and grows and grows and turns into an enormous share of the portfolio. Then you definately begin to carry a whole lot of danger that you just don’t want and isn’t actually justifiable.
So I’d say it’s best to have greater than fifteen shares, possibly 20 or 25, to get sufficient diversification; however not fifty as a result of then you definately’ve no concept what’s happening in there. You desire a unfold of sectors as properly, and usually I’ll at all times construct and personal what I consider are the higher shares in every sector, those which have the best high quality of enterprise and in addition the higher prospect for progress. And the way you see the prospects and high quality is clearly in a lot of metrics.
However the innovation, the sense of the tradition of innovation within the firm, issues loads to me as properly. I believe that leads into the potential for progress. Some examples of that…
RYK VAN NIEKERK: I need to push you now. Sure. Are you able to be extra particular?
GRANT NADER: Within the financials I’ve at all times owned and proceed to carry Capitec. It’s a unstable journey at occasions, like all good firms; even Apple has fallen 50% a lot of occasions. So that you’ve bought to know; if it’s an excellent enterprise and it stays an excellent enterprise, don’t promote it. This factor of compounding is an actual factor. Don’t get caught by promoting on the lows and shopping for on the highs.
And while you purchase an organization, be sure you are clear in your thoughts whether or not it’s a long-term funding or it’s a commerce. If it’s a long-term funding, too many individuals’s investments flip into trades, and trades flip into investments once they go in opposition to them. In order that’s one of many greatest errors many individuals make. For instance, you need sectors which have some visibility or some sustainability.
Woolworths I like as a result of I just like the meals, I just like the product, the providing there. Shoprite is one other one. In South Africa the universe is sort of small so it’s sort of apparent what the most effective firms are.
Bidcorp is one other nice firm. You simply have to have these in your portfolio.
Richemont shares provide you with some world publicity and nothing to do with the South African financial system. You want a handful of these no less than.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: So you’re invested in particular person shares versus possibly unit trusts – or is there a combo?
GRANT NADER: It might be a combo, However for the unit belief portion, I might extra usually find yourself in ETFs as a result of particularly now we’re fairly privileged in South Africa. We will spend money on world ETFs, and that’s a primary crucial as a South African.
Once I discuss diversifying, it’s not simply diversifying on the JSE, it’s diversifying into world publicity. You will get an ETF exposing you to the S&P, the FTSE, the Nasdaq – and the Indian market is rising at 7% a yr. So it’s crucial. You possibly can’t inventory choose all these markets by yourself at residence. As an investor, construct a few of that.
You possibly can take a look at a rustic the identical means you’ll be able to take a look at an organization. If the basics are sound and the runway for progress is powerful, you’ll be able to personal publicity to that nation broadly by proudly owning the highest shares in that nation.
So you too can give it some thought like that. It’s not at all times about having to discover a gem in a selected firm in the midst of one other nation that you would be able to’t analysis as a DIY investor. I believe that’s essential. So diversify throughout these metrics. Diversify forex publicity. It’s nearly a profession hedge by incomes some expertise and by proudly owning dollar-denominated investments as a result of, if you consider how uncovered we’re to technological change – who is aware of what job we’re going to lose with generative AI if the doom-and-gloomers are to be believed? So personal among the future as properly. Give your self the power to learn if it performs out.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: In case you might return and converse to Grant, the not too long ago certified CA Grant with stars in his eyes [who says], ‘I need to make investments, I’m going to be the most effective spinoff dealer ever, and I additionally need to develop my very own wealth,’ what recommendation would you give him with what you realize presently?
GRANT NADER: It’s an excellent query. There are a number of [things]. I can checklist a number of guidelines, for those who like, that I’ve realized over time.
Primary is make investments constantly. Even when it’s a small quantity, don’t wait till you’ve got 100 thousand, after which you’re going to put it into the market and purchase a inventory. No. In case you’ve R1 000, put a thousand in. In case you’ve R1 000 subsequent month, put a thousand in, as a result of there’s nothing extra highly effective than compounding. And purchase good firms.
So the primary level is begin investing. It doesn’t matter how small it’s. Once I began you can purchase just one hundred shares. And in an enormous firm that was a R500 000 firm, nobody might afford to purchase 100 shares as a retail investor. Now you should purchase a fraction of a share by the EasyEquities of the world. So purchase one thing, that’s the way you be taught. Be sure you put your cash in danger; that means you’ll be taught primary.
Quantity two, purchase nice firms. In case you purchase an awesome firm, it does the give you the results you want. Purchase these shares and maintain them so long as you’ll be able to, so long as they continue to be an excellent firm. Don’t promote. It doesn’t matter if the market goes up or down as a result of that firm’s compounding earnings. There’s an entire administration group there compounding your cash for you as a shareholder in that firm.
However for those who’re at all times attempting to promote it and discover the subsequent one, and promote it and discover the subsequent one, you’ll by no means let that compounding play out, and there’s nothing extra highly effective than compounding. Simply 7% a yr doubles in 10 years, 15% a yr doubles in 5 years. There are unbelievable charges of return for those who give it to an excellent firm and allow them to do the give you the results you want.
The opposite factor is don’t fear an excessive amount of about value. In case you are long run in your considering, for those who’re wanting over 20 or 30 years, the corporate’s earnings over 20 or 30 years are 99% of the worth driver of the corporate – not the worth you pay on day one. So simply maintain shopping for over time and the worth will matter much less and fewer, and the corporate’s efficiency over the long run will matter essentially the most. So that you get that potential to compound.
Be clear whether or not you’re investing or buying and selling. Lots of people may have a commerce, they purchase a inventory, it goes down 20% and it’s a long-term funding. As a substitute of slicing their losses, they only put it within the backside drawer and shut their eyes and hope it comes again. Simply consider the EOHs of the world and the Steinhoffs and the Transaction Capital guys.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Or one thing that has misplaced cash over an extended interval, like ArcelorMittal.
GRANT NADER: Sure, precisely. That isn’t an excellent enterprise – and take your ache. The opposite factor you’re investing is be very clear. Don’t let your investments develop into a commerce. In case you purchase an organization and it does properly rapidly and also you make 20% in three months, the response is to promote out of the corporate, take revenue. That’s now a commerce. When you’re out of an excellent firm and it retains going, folks discover it very laborious to purchase again in. The psychological facet of that’s, ‘Properly I can’t purchase it at R120 as a result of I bought it at R110, after which this inventory is at R200 earlier than they power their means to purchase it again in. In order that’s additionally one thing that destroys worth.
Simply maintain on to the great firm if it’s an funding. Nevertheless, if it’s a foul firm or it’s going unhealthy, simply get out. These are the sort of issues that we additionally don’t do. We maintain onto the losers. You need to reduce your losers and maintain on to your winners so long as potential.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Many individuals, in the event that they desperately want cash for some purpose, would promote their best-performing shares and depart their poor performers.
GRANT NADER: Sure. So the psychology of investing is an extremely highly effective power. In spite of everything these years I nonetheless must combat my psychology day-after-day as an investor, and it’s essential to know that. The machines can calculate and do all of the numbers, however they don’t have the psychology of a human. So it’s a must to be very cautious. It’s a must to know your self, know your unhealthy habits and your good habits and simply handle your portfolio inside a algorithm somewhat than inside a set of feelings.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Lastly, I believe many individuals hearken to the podcast only for the next two questions.
The primary one is what has been the most effective funding you ever made, the one which has made you essentially the most cash?
GRANT NADER: I hadn’t had time to consider that. Okay, let’s go onto the second query and I’ll come again on the query.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: What’s the worst funding you ever made?
GRANT NADER: The worst funding I ever made was most likely shopping for some Bitcoin. [Laughter] You recognize that crypto is simply noise and distraction, and basic–
RYK VAN NIEKERK: When did you purchase it?
GRANT NADER: I purchased it in 2019 or 2020 when it was one of many run-ups. After which it was wanting good and I assumed I used to be a rockstar; however then it had an enormous pullback and I assumed, what am I holding this for? I don’t even know what it does. After which I simply reduce, bought out and walked away as a result of it didn’t have a basic funding case. So I locked within the losses. That was that and I walked away from that.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: In case you had held it and hoped, it could’ve sufficed.
GRANT NADER: Everyone knows hope isn’t a method, however it’s fairly often employed nonetheless.
When it comes to winners, there’ve been a lot of good ones. I can’t assume off the highest of my head. Capitec stands out.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: When did you get into Capitec?
GRANT NADER: A few years in the past. Most likely within the early 2010s I purchased some. However having a portfolio that strikes over time, I can’t bear in mind the precise quantity. However on the entire, the opposite factor is at all times attempt to maintain a few of it. So sure, I’ve bought some and acquired some and bought some and acquired some, however I want I simply purchased some and held on to them. That’s one other lesson that point has taught me.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Twenty-twenty hindsight – ‘what if?’
GRANT NADER: That’s my lesson to my youthful self.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: Grant, thanks a lot for coming in immediately and for sharing your insights. Sure, I believe you’ve bought a really strong method and I believe many younger folks can be clever to comply with it. However thanks a lot on your time.
GRANT NADER: Thanks, Ryk.
RYK VAN NIEKERK: That was Grant Nader. He’s a portfolio supervisor at Benguela International.
